Southampton Village officials are considering a change to the village’s weapons laws to allow residents the opportunity to hunt deer on their land with a bow and arrow.
Mayor Mark Epley began a discussion of the idea at the Village Board’s monthly meeting on Thursday, October 8, suggesting the village allow residents to kill deer to cull the local population. He said deer pose a health threat in the village because they carry ticks and cause car accidents.
To permit hunting, the Village Board would have to adopt changes to the local laws regarding the discharging of weapons. Currently, weapons—including a bow and arrow—cannot be discharged within 500 feet of a dwelling, roadway or building.
The New York State Department of Environmental Conservation, or DEC, allows property owners to obtain nuisance permits to lawfully shoot deer on properties that are normally not designated for hunting, Mr. Epley explained. The permits allow property owners to shoot deer within a 500-foot radius of their homes if they receive permission from all neighbors within that area.
But the village code is so prohibitive of firing weapons that it makes the nuisance permits useless, Mr. Epley said. Two village property owners have nuisance permits but cannot fire their weapons because of the law.
Mr. Epley said that the village would allow residents to only use bows, not firearms, to shoot the deer, and he pointed out that the villages of Quogue and North Haven allow deer hunting. There have been 175 deer killed in Quogue since the program for hunting began there in October 2007, though there has been some debate over how effective the hunting has been. Some residents have speculated that there are more deer in Quogue now than there were before the hunting began.
According to the DEC website, archery is the only permitted method of hunting deer from October through December. There is a shotgun season in January.
DEC spokesman Bill Fonda said anyone who obtains a nuisance permit also needs to be a hunter licensed with New York State, and the DEC inspects the property of anyone applying for a nuisance permit to ensure that hunting there would be safe.
“It’s not like we’re going to have open deer hunting season in the village,” Mr. Epley said.
Mr. Epley said he attended a DEC seminar on deer management in Southold earlier this year.
When the mayor brought up the idea at Thursday’s public meeting, Trustee Paul Robinson voiced strong opposition. “I don’t think it’s appropriate in the village,” he said. “I’m not going to vote for this.”
Trustee Nancy McGann said she would need more information on deer hunting before she made a decision.
Even so, Mr. Epley explained that property owners and residents have come into Village Hall asking about what they can do to deter deer from their property. He added that deer have also caused numerous car accidents in the village.
Deer hunting would most likely not happen in the densely populated areas of Southampton Village, such as the neighborhood around the hospital. At his own home, the mayor said, he would need permission from at least 20 to 25 of his neighbors before he could shoot a bow and arrow.
Most likely the owners of any farms within the village, and perhaps some residents of the Southampton estate section, would look to secure permits, Mr. Epley explained.
Gary Goleski, the village highway department superintendent, said that other methods of controlling the deer population are costly. Deer sterilization costs nearly $1,000 per animal, he said. Trapping and hiring a sharpshooter also are alternatives.
Affordable Housing
Also at last week’s meeting, the Village Board heard from Southampton architect David Rose, who reviewed his plans for building as many as three affordable homes on Bailey Road.
The board is currently contemplating a zone change for the 1.64-acre parcel on the road, which is currently in a residential zone that requires building lots be nearly an acre in size. The zone change would permit the creation of three building lots at the site, each at just over half an acre.
Mr. Rose, who is donating his services for the project, explained that half-acre lots would fit in well with the existing homes on Bailey Road. Many of the homes on the road are on lots smaller than a half acre, he said. “Seventy percent of the lots are [equal to] or smaller than the properties they’re creating in the subdivision,” Mr. Rose said.
Mr. Rose noted that he has tentatively found contractors who would donate their services to building the homes, a way to save the village money and keep the cost of the homes even lower.
John Bennett, a Southampton attorney representing residents of Bailey Road, spoke out against the plans, explaining that the road is too small to accommodate three more houses. He also demanded that the village complete an environmental impact statement as well as allow him and his clients to comment on it.
Mark Epley, feel free to explain what the voice in your head was saying at the time. Do you even remember saying this, or this whole story a joke?
Thanks for making the day amusing, and thanks for opening the door for your ouster.
A very Noble Prize!
If human did not like deer then move to the city that wat you will know real danger and these human animals can actually kill you where deer are only a defenseless living sentient being that were their home we encroached on.
I'm not too wild about bows and arrows in neighborhoods, unless it's a very experienced archer- those things are just as dangerous as guns in the ...more wrong hands.
Use of a sharpshooter, is a safe and humane way to cull the burdgeoning herds. Doesn't a restaurant here in the Hamptons host an annual venison dinner?
Many of us eat beef, pork, lamb, buffalo, fish and chicken. As long as there is no waste, it seems logical to protect our health and property.
I agree with the Mayor--
We have four living in a neighbor's yard. We startled each other yesterday. One was an Eight point buck. You'd have MY permission to thin the herd.
Do let's also put them on birth control. They are a blight. Sloppy sentimentality is gonna get your novice teenage driver killed. Wake up.
splitg2s@yahoo.com
I'm not much into the blood sports but in various areas of this Town -- including mine -- it's become an "them vs. us" situation.
Or perhaps DagDavid, PBR. HighHatSize et al, in the alternative, would support the release of some natural predators (cougars and wolves) into the affflicated areas of Shelter Island, Sag Harbor/North Haven, Southampton Village. Quogue, Westhampton Beach and Wildwood Lake!
I know that we are a predatory species and that it is normal for us to kill other animals to eat or wear or just for fun. Fortunately, until now, local law has prevented this from being done outside my window.
I suggest that the towns ...more submit deer control proposals to the populace in a referendum. Let the voters choose killing, neutering, (with the advice of PETA and other animal welfare organizations), or continuing with the status quo in which we allow killers to enjoy themselves in specific seasons. Let's find out what the people would prefer.
"with the advice of PETA and other animal welfare organizations."
Are you serious? PETA, Animal Liberation Front and Animal Liberation Brigade are all on terrorist watch lists for their activities.
And if, as you state, you are truly a "vegetarian," I can understand your opposition ...more to the killing of "sentient animals." Their meat woud have no food value, and you could make no use of their hide.
That, sir, is your personal choice, but do not attempt to impose your beliefs on all others when there are legitimate reasons for such herd reduction methods.
You libel PETA which is not on any terrorist watch list. Ditto for The Humane Society of the United States and the American Humane Association which would be happy to provide information on humane population control. There are many others.
Since it is you and Mayor Epley who are attempting to change the status quo by initiating bow hunting of deer in the village , how am, "I' attempting to, "impose my beliefs on all others". Rather it is you two who think ...more that allowing bloodsports on the streets of Southampton is a reasonable suggestion.
One need not be a vegetarian to oppose exposing one's family to the awful site of gentle creatures dying painfully in front of their eyes.
I never referenced the Humane Society of the United States and/or the American Humane Association, so why have you introduced them here?
Deer are a problem on several different levels -- can you really be ignorant of that?
I don't know Mark Epley, but is it your contention that he all of a sudden decided to introduce this initiative on his own and in a ...more vacuum, that he is not looking for a solution to a problem brought to his attention by a number of constituents?
You assert that you live West of the Canal, yet you're attempting to impose your own beliefs on those who reside East of the Canal. Why? You don't have a dog in this fight, yet you sit in judgement of those that do!?
"One need not be a vegetarian to oppose exposing one's family to the awful site of gentle creatures dying painfully in front of their eyes."
The correct form in this context, I believe, is "sight."
But how do you justify, on that visual basis, exposing one's family to the sight of seeing a loved one in a horrendous vehicular wreck caused by deer?
But let us eschew the emotional and stick with the rational -- if you are capable of doing that. Deer are a problem in various areas of the Town. An effective -- the only "effective" way -- has been proposed, and you are loudly and publicly sttempting to ridicule that approach -- without an alternative.
Additionally, you are attempting to associate Mayor Epley's proposal as a "blood sport." It is not! It is a response to an environmental problem almost certainly brought to his attention by the citizenry" of 11968.
Sorry that your sensibilities have been offended, HHS -- but get over it and come a viable alternative!
Hunting is a powerful business run by pro-kill Government and NRA. Not an easy fight to win but we will never give up. Today we have non-lethal options and we are learning more and more about the truth of hunting, the barbaric act towards the innocent sentient creatures and the heartless monsters these "sportsman" are. Youtube is a haven for sports hunters check some of their video it is like something serial killers would enjoy. More and more people are banning together to end sports wildlife killing plus for the safety of people on the road . DVA peaks during hunting season as we all know that by now.
However, since Mr. Wheeler seems to get off on misrepresenting the words of others, allow me to clarify: I think this is stupid idea not because I am concerned for the deer, but for the innocent neighbor who is put at risk by a stray arrow. Perhaps if I lived next door to Mr. Wheeler I'd feel differently.
What you huff and puff and indignantly call "infantile name-calling," seems to have resonated with HHS, who freely and happily pleads to not only being a bunny hugger, but "an arch" one at that!
As for your other charges, that of "twisting words" and "misrepresenting the words of others," how now Dag Cow?
And as for "getting off," if you mean holding one's words up to scrutiny, yeah!, that's me.
You stated without amplification, "What ...more an incredibly stupid idea." And as a stand-alone statement, it's absurd on it's face.
Now you assert that your concerns are for "stray arrows" posing a risk to a neighbor. Okay, that's fair and an absolutely legitimate concern. (And quite different from the issues articulated by HHS.)
It's also a concern which could be addressed in the drafting of the legislation.
But instead of a knee-jerk reaction like the mother in A CHRISTMAS STORY ("You'll shoot your eye out."), consider that bow-hunting by its very nature does not lend itself to the type of "unintentional" or "negligent shooting" you seem to fear.
Disclaimer: I'm neither an archer or a hunter, but I've seen some in the field, and they are not given to "spray and pray," or promiscuous launching of their shafts. They exhibit great skill and patience with their targets.
So before condemning Mayor Epley's initiative with a blanket "What an incredibly stupid idea," learn more about it.
Or, better yet, come up with a legitimate alternative solution.
P.S. - I've been to two (2!) NYS DEC meetings in the past eleven years in which the conventional "alternative solutions" were discussed and shown to be expensive or ineffective or both. The representatives of that agency acknowledge that the thinning of the deer populace by shotgun or bow may not be popular or even acceptable in some quarters, but it is the most effective method available.
Again, while no method short of someone with Pan pipes and bark footwear leading the deer into some other jurisdisction's backyard will ever be acceptable to HHS on moral grounds, what do YOU propose?
Yet you still offer nothing in the way of an alternative, nor offer any example of where I have twisted your words.
You state that PETA is on a terrorist watch list. This is false – and libelous. You equate it with two notional organizations without members in whose names activists commit illegal acts to protect animals, also untrue.
You say that killing is the only effective way of controlling the deer population. Also false. Killing is just the cheapest way. I have already stated the humane alternative.
You state that deer hunting is not a, “blood sport”. False ...more again.
You assert that I should not voice my opinion of killing deer with bows and arrow in Southampton Village because I don’t live there. The 1st Amendment dealt with that notion in 1792. Also, remember, “Civics”.
Finally, a rigorous humane control of the deer population will decrease deer/auto accidents just as effectively as an inhumane one. It is the control that is important, not the method.
Libel , Error, Ignorance. Before you hit the, “Submit”, button, you should consider what your post says about you rather than what you say about other people in it.
So let's look at yours:
You propose that deer be "trapped, darted, neutered and ID chipped." (ID chipped?!?) In both the NYS DEC meetings I have attended -- how many have you attended? -- state employees have stated that as a long-term solution, this is expensive and ineffective as a method of "control."
As a short-term approach, it utterly fails to address the deep population's danger to vehicular traffic (and therefore ...more human life) and the devastation done to produce gardens (food) and landscaping which people expend great effort and money to tend. (Yes, the latter is a minor consideration in the grand scheme, but among other things the landscaping industry employs a significant number of people on the East End, and they all aren't illegals.)
You attempt to marginalize/demonize the taking/killing of deer for population control as a "blood sport," when in this instance it is not, and that is very definitely an overt attempt to impose your will and your values on others. Why? Because I, HighHatSize, say it is so, that it is inhumane, and none of the reasons for doing this are valid.
HHS: "You say that killing is the only effective way of controlling the deer population. Also false. Killing is just the cheapest way. I have already stated the humane alternative."
Again, how many DEC meetings on deer control have you attended?
And, sir, do not in this economic climate knock "cheapest!"
Mix that in with "most effective," and while your outrage may seem moral, it is foolish.
Now, to PETA, or "PeTA" as they seem to prefer. You continue to state that my comments are libelous. The first defense to any charge of "libel" is the truth of the claim.
That Ingrid Newkirk's organization is a domestic terrorist support group, is a matter of record, as they have expended tax-exempt contributions [http://www.animalscam.com/references/peta_rodney1.cfm] on defense attorneys for Rodney Coronado [http://www.activistcash.com/biography.cfm/bid/3255] while he was the leader of the Animal Liberation Front, an identified terrorist organization.
I would further refer you to http://foia.fbi.gov/people_for_ethical_treatment_animals/people_for_ethical_treatment_animals_part01.pdf .
Other instructive links include:
• http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080901230147AA5mC89
• http://www.doggienews.com/2005/06/more-information-on-peta-animal.htm
• http://www.petakillsanimals.com/
Now I do not expect you to ever embrace Mayor Epley's proposal, nor would I ever attempt to infringe on your First Amendment rights. I merely point out that you are trying to impose your personal values on an entire community eight miles distance. It's clear that they are experiencing a problem, and your solution has been deemed expensive and ineffective by those who are paid (by us, ultimately) to know about such things.
Is this the same village that is urbanized to the point where keeping hens has been prohibited for years?
Are we to believe it is suddenly so rural that hunting deer with bows would not be unsafe?
Let's just clear cut and pave over whatever shrubbery is left that is attracting these nuisances and solve the "problem" of unwanted wildlife altogether.
INGREDIENTS
2 tablespoons vegetable oil
2 pounds venison stew meat
3 onions, chopped
2 cloves garlic, minced
1 tablespoon Worcestershire sauce
1 bay leaf
1/2 teaspoon dried oregano
1 tablespoon salt
3 cups water
7 small potatoes, peeled and quartered
1 pound carrots, cut into 1 inch pieces
1/4 cup all-purpose flour
1/4 cup water
DIRECTIONS
In a skillet, deeply brown the meat in oil. Add onions, garlic. ...more Worcestershire sauce, bay leaf, oregano, salt, and water. Simmer, covered, for 1 1/2 to 2 hours, or until meat is tender.
Add potatoes and carrots; cook until tender.
Combine flour and water. Stir into the stew. Remove bay leaf before serving.
i might take the legal route and use the truck
git' er' dun!!!!!!!!
2 tablespoons vegetable oil
2 pounds BSE bovine spongiform encephalopathy meat
3 onions, chopped
2 cloves garlic, minced
1 tablespoon Worcestershire sauce
1 bay leaf
1/2 teaspoon dried oregano
1 tablespoon salt
3 cups water
7 small potatoes, peeled and quartered
1 pound carrots, cut into 1 inch pieces
1/4 cup all-purpose flour
1/4 cup water
DIRECTIONS
In a skillet, deeply brown the BSE bovine spongiform encephalopathy ...more meat in oil. Add onions, garlic. ... more Worcestershire sauce, bay leaf, oregano, salt, and water. Simmer, covered, for 1 1/2 to 2 hours, or until BSE bovine spongiform encephalopathy meat is tender.
Add potatoes and carrots; cook until tender.
Combine flour and water. Stir into the stew. Remove bay leaf before serving.
Make sure your living will is made and you have your plot and casket purchased. Then you can meet Lucifer, wouldn't that be wonderful?
__________________________________________________________ (Insert name of terrorist watch list and security organization that compiled it here
You compound your libel. Your first assertion that PETA was on a terrorist watch list can be ascribed to ignorance and carelessness. Now, though, you have been informed that your claim is false and you, “stand by your word”. Your citations are ALL irrelevant. They are nothing more than complaints by, or catalogues ...more of complaints by, people who do not like PETA. (The, “activistcash”, citation is superannuated. Time to update your material.)
Here is a link to a Cornell University report that summarizes deer population control methods, including both sterilization and killing. It is not surprising that the NYS DEC would be ignorant of its existence. The s.o.p. of deer control has been hunting. It is a system that the DEC is familiar with. Sterilization would be entirely novel and would be expensive. Bureaucrats do not like to change the way they have always done things.
(http://www.dnr.cornell.edu/ext/chdp/Control%20Method%20compare.pdf)
An immediate reduction in deer/auto accidents could be effected by the installation of, “Strieter-Lites”, as in East Hampton.
(http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/18/nyregion/long-island/18deerli.html effected)
In any case, I was unable to find any news articles that reported, “. . .a loved one in a horrendous vehicular wreck caused by deer.”, as you describe, nor any reports of fatalities or serious injury to motorists locally. Basically, deer/auto accidents cause car body damage.
“Blood sport: a sport or contest (as hunting or cockfighting) involving bloodshed”. Can we finally put this discussion to rest. Merriam-Webster agrees with ME.
(http://www.aolsvc.merriam-webster.aol.com/dictionary/blood%20sport)
You stand by a statement that is false and libelous. If you want to retract your statement, now is the time to do so. Did you mean to say that PETA is a, “domestic terrorist support group”, as you later phrased it, (since it contributed to the defense fund of an animal rights activist), rather than that it is on a, “terrorist watch list.”? Then do so now. The latter is a grave accusation. The former is semantic fluff.
Beyond this, you continue to state erroneous beliefs after they have been shown erroneous by citation, mislead readers about the damage that deer cause, and list citations that do not support the point for which you list them.
(http://www.aolsvc.merriam-webster.aol.com/dictionary/blood%20sport)
"Sport (2) -- An active pastime; recreation." (American Heritage Dictionary )
Why do you continue to try to portray this initiative as a "blood sport" when it is clearly not a sport at all, but a solution to an identified problem?
We aren't ever going to agree on the PeTA stuff.
Cornell University is a big deer killing people and I am going to make a video to upload to youtube just for them those disgusting killers of the innocent. May they all burn in hell ! Are they friend with Anthony DeNicola the who owns a deer killing company "White Buffalo" and says I quote "Killing deer is like mowing lawn, it has to be done year after year ". Great for those who profit ...more from the death of the innocent deer isn't it?
The real culprits are the board members who decided that it was ok to raise the tax base by approving every developer's application for building permits without a thought to where the local populace (human or animal) would have to shift to. Now, there is not enough open space left, and we are to have arrows whizzing ...more through our airspace in hopes that the deer (tick) poplulation will be sufficently controlled by culling....
If it's the ticks, how does the mayor propose to rid the rabbits and squirrels, racoons, opossums, and feral cats of these pests? Deer aren't the only hosts for them...if they were, we wouldn't need to worry about them moving on to humans, would we?
No, let's be honest and admit that humans have created a problem here, and the fender benders and destroyed shrubbery are convenient excuses for those who are so inclined to enjoy pursuing their practically-tame-by-now prey at a range of the width of the average back yard in the village.
Sure, sounds great. They are 'experts' aren't they? What could possibly go wrong?
to shoot them with bows too? It would certainly make it all more interesting.......
Exactly what keeps deer in other areas from moving into SH Village, Quogue or N Haven? Are there roadblocks & checkpoints?
Personally, I think we should microchip & sterilize all elected officials in the Town, they have made a much bigger mess than the deer. Excellent recipe NSea, have an almost
identical ...more one myself.
There was a dog named Miles hit by bowhunters arrow and died. All he wanted to do was to play in the forest and so do we , without fear for our lives. It's unfair that we cannot enjoy the fall crisp weather and also the winter time is so beautiful but who wants to find blood trails ...more from hunters? Who wantst to find gut pile that hunters loves to brag and think it's funny. Who wants to find dead deer during hunting season. I called Wildlife rescue and they said "oh its so sad but there are so many deer found wounded from hunters, too much to mention" and it broke my heart. I found tree stand in a property near where I live 2 of them and one so close to the road 60 yards from the road and school bus goes by there. I called the DEC and they said the tree stand is "safe" . I was about to puke on her face. So I video taped the stand to the road.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ea3je_d2ivk
Imagine a child going in there and be mistaken for a deer or other 'game" animals. Did you know in private land they are allowed to drink and kill? yup and most of the killing in NY are in private land. At the time of the video I had no idea it was private until this ugly land keeper told me I was private property. I used to love this town but now there is so much bad karma in the air. If they are so "worried" about DVA then why don't I see a better bigger sign? Why don't they change it because after a while the same deer xsing does not elert the people. DVA rises the highest during hunting seasn. Also during hunting season they should put extra caution that "hunters are in the woods killing deer provided by the hunting industry for for sports ,please drive safe because they want to kill". That is right , hunting industry and hunters knows about CRE (Compensatory Reboundd Effect) and use it to their advantage. They know hunting will cause drastic drop deer population which will in the end compensate for the loss with more fawn birth, twins and triplets plus with all the food plots hunters love to plant and supplement feeding (in many of the states still allows it). If you look at some of the hunting website or QDM's , Game Comissions you will see "provide deer for millions of sports hunters", "fawn crops", "fawn recruits", "killl predators", "restoration" (in deer). and that folks is the reason why they reject deer birth control. IC deer birth control works and worlks very well according to Jay Kirkpatrick a Wildlife Contraception expert. 60% drop in deer herd size. We know for a fact in hunting DVA has risen 18% in the past 5 years. NJ started to kill 5 more parks in Morris county and even on sunday and DVA risen 54%. W. VA who loves to "restore" their deer herd size , have the highest likelyhood of hitting deer with car so does PA.
Overall sports hunting must end and now it's 2010 , not cave man era . We do not need to kill in order to survive and whats worse you all kill mostly because you enjoy killing like serial killers who enjoy killing human vicstims and collecting trophies. Yours is nothing about food because I know trophy deer carcass (buck meat) are very tough that is why they "give" to the pantries. My my whar would they do wthout those pantries? Where would they dump the bodies?? Though there has been so many wounded deer on the forest ground mostly by bowhunters but I have seen my share of shot gun hunters causing pain and suffering to innocent sentient life. Bowhunters are shot gun hunters and vice versa. They cannot stop killing its it their blood like a sick psycopath. Reminds me of this quote.
A Serial killer ma be better defnedas an ndividual who had decided to avenge imself against society by grabbing his moment of power in a way that excites him most. homicide. He has killed a thousand times in his head by the time he actally places his hands on a real victim. To him, the murder he commits is just a reenactment of his fantasized behavior; and it's a whole lof of fun. He's getting to act out his diriest thoughts. If you were he, wouldn't you want to do it again" Pat Brown Killing for Sports- The Mind Of Serial killers.
That is why they have killing sports for all season. Even in Sag harbor the caged bird killing where I can gunshot from my house. How about if it his my kids and my cats. ? We have non-lehtal IC deer birth control but they are too concerened with raking the blood money with the sales of deer killing tags. Whitetails bring in 70% of the profilt to the killing aka hunting industry not to benefit the non-kill public but to benefit themselves. The can buy more land, and manipulate deer habitat to creat more deer for recreational hunting. That is why you have so many deer. Deer only wants to survivie in a lnad that was once theirs .
If you don't lke deer MOVE !! Plus I been around deer for 5 years now and no lyme diseses . I heard actallly less deer will cause worse lyme diseases in our porperty because they will hilde in aread like logs and wood piles where kids and people sits and white footed mouse and birds will carry them everywhere.
LocalTeacher has focused on the core issue IMO.
Does hunting deer within the Village WITH BOWS AND ARROWS (!!!) make sense?
Come on!
Convince me, and please subtract your ANGER before you post.
Anger poisons.
Mark Epley, you still have not chimed in here.
This problem arose because of overdevelopment and it's spreading rapidly. Keep the woods and drive slowly. Use birth control.
I'll tell the cops "I was aiming that that deer, y'all!!"
(That'll teach him to dump his clippings on my part of the yard...) Yeehaw!
The only waiver that MIGHT be valid would be a waiver from all the people in the Village releasing it from liability should they be shot by one of the hunters.
I have had problems with injured deer coming on to my property to die after being shot poorly by hunters given permission to shoot under my neighbor's nuisance permit. Fortunately for me, I was able to get the permit holder to remove the dead and stinking deer, but by the time he did, they were crawling ...more with maggots and we were having to keep all of our windows closed to keep out the stench.
I also believe hunting should be held responsible for DVA and should be murder 1 because they know its going to happen year after year with hunting.
We have compassionate choice..USE IT!