WELCOME GUEST  |  LOG IN
southampton politics, southampton council, craig catalanotto
27east.com

Story - News

Apr 30, 2019 2:30 PMPublication: The Southampton Press

Shinnecock Tribe Pushes Forward WIth Plan To Construct Two 61-Foot 'Monuments' In Hampton Bays, Despite Town Orders To Stop The Work

May 1, 2019 12:37 PM

A pair of 61-foot-tall billboards—pitched as “monuments—are currently being constructed for the Shinnecock Indian Nation along both sides of Sunrise Highway in Hampton Bays, just west of the Shinnecock Canal, despite efforts from Southampton Town officials to stop the work.

Plans show a 61-foot by 20-foot monolith that is painted tan. Partway up the billboard is a 30-foot-tall LED digital display for advertisements that reaches a height of 46 feet from the base, which will be made of river rock stone. At the top is the Shinnecock Nation’s seal, and toward the bottom is a display that shows the date, time and temperature.

The land where the signs are being erected is part of the Westwoods property, owned by the tribe, which at one time was being looked at as a site of a gaming facility by the Nation.

Steven Troyd, public safety emergency management administrator for the Town of Southampton, confirmed on Friday that the tribe was planning the billboards on both the north and south sides of Sunrise Highway. He noted that site plans have not been approved for the signs by town regulatory boards—nor even submitted for consideration. Instead, the tribe notified the State Department of Transportation of its plans.

“I don’t think anything this large would be approved,” he said of an application to the town. “Nothing 60 feet tall is being built here.”

He added, “We believe that because they’re on the right-of-way for the state, we can issue a stop work order, which is what we’re planning to do.”

The order was, in fact, issued on Friday, according to Tribal Trustee Lance Gumbs, who said the billboard project was his. But he maintains that the Town Code Enforcement Division has no authority over tribal land. He added that the work would continue, despite the stop work order, but would not say anything else about the project.

The Council of Trustees issued a press release on Tuesday, saying the two monuments are part of a project to “help alleviate the economic disparity between the Native community and the surrounding Southampton area.”

“Our community has suffered greatly over the last several decades due to a lack of resources,” the release read. “Now, we have the opportunity to generate revenue and have access to the same standard of living as our much wealthier neighbors.”

The money earned from the advertising space on the monuments is expected to go toward law enforcement, education, road repairs, youth programs and an affordable housing project for the Nation’s members, according to the press release.

As crews continued the work, on Monday, Southampton Town officials and a representative from U.S. Representative Lee Zeldin’s office met with Shinnecock Nation tribal leaders, where they were asked again to stop construction of the two “monuments.”

A letter signed by all five members of the Southampton Town Board was hand-delivered to tribal leaders. In the letter, the Town Board members refer to Southampton as “our” home, collectively, saying the two communities—the Nation and the town—have lived and worked together for many years.

But town officials say they were “disheartened” when they found out about the proposed electronic five-story-high billboards.

“These ‘urban’ style illuminated signs, towering above the pine trees, are in stark contrast to all that represents the natural and scenic beauty of the town,” the letter reads. “They are completely out of scale and character with the area, completely out of sync with the laws we have enacted to limit visual and light pollution, and instead exemplify the very degradation such overdeveloped, urban-styled features have on the bucolic landscape we have all fought to preserve.”

The letter also notes that the signs may pose a threat to the safety of motorists.

Officials later asked tribal leaders, in the letter, to not “diminish” any beauty the town and tribe have worked together to protect from overdevelopment.

“We have learned many lessons about land stewardship from the Shinnecock, but these so-called ‘monuments’ seem in direct conflict with these teachings,” the letter read.

In 2003, the tribe had proposed using the same 79-acre Westwoods property—which stretches from the Peconic Bay, across Newtown Road and across Sunrise Highway—for a gaming facility. After a four-year court battle, U.S. District Justice Joseph Bianco ruled, in a 130-page decision, that such a facility could not be built at Westwoods.

Justice Bianco concluded that the tribe owns Westwoods but it could not be considered sovereign tribal land, because the tribe relinquished ownership of the land in the 1600s. The land was recovered by the tribe some years later. But because it had changed hands, it lost its aboriginal sovereignty, Justice Bianco said. As a result, development there is not free from the constraints of local zoning laws, as is the 800-acre reservation south of Montauk Highway.

The town tried to further limit activities on the property in 2008, including gatherings by tribe members, but Justice Bianco said the town was overstepping its authority.

Tribal leaders kept fighting in court over their sovereign right to use the Westwoods property as it chooses, even for a gaming facility, which generally would be limited to sovereign tribal lands.

In 2012, the U.S. Court of Appeals overturned a lower court ruling that prevented the Nation from using Westwoods for a gaming facility, saying the case never should have been argued in federal court, because the issues brought forward by the Town of Southampton and New York State regarding gambling were not subject to federal jurisdiction.

Tribal officials, including Mr. Gumbs, admitted in 2008 that they never actually planned to develop the land but instead used the possibility as a bargaining chip to try to get an agreement to use a more suitable property to the west for a gaming facility.

Both sides have argued over the matter of sovereignty at Westwoods, but no conclusive ruling has been made in court.

The tribe, Mr. Troyd said, submitted plans to the State Department of Transportation, instead of the town, because the state holds an easement along Sunrise Highway. “It’s a state road, and we’re aware that the tribe has provided a plan to the Department of Transportation. But they aren’t asking for approvals, because they feel it’s a sovereign issue there—which may, in fact, be the case,” he said. “Nothing has been filed with the town.”

Mr. Troyd said that the contractors currently clearing land at the site had already been issued summonses because they are not licensed with the town, and that the stop work order was the next step.

“I think this is just part of the process,” he said. “If they ignore that, we’re going to continue to work on getting the state involved, and the Federal Highway Administration as well.”

Southampton Town Attorney James Burke said in an email on Tuesday that the issue surrounding the matter is very complex, as case law is all over the map.

He said the town is currently working with the State DOT, U.S. Attorney’s office and Federal Highway Administration to determine who has jurisdiction—but he acknowledged that it was pretty clear that the town does not have the authority to regulate the zoning at the site.

The state could pursue action under federal highway law, Mr. Burke said, but it would depend how the Shinnecock Nation owns the property, and whether it is held in trust with the federal government.

“As far as we can tell, the structures are on tribal property, but in the easement the state has acquired for [State Route 27],” he said, adding that it was subsequent to the ruling by Justice Bianco—which was vacated by the federal appeals court.

You've read 1 of 7 free articles this month.

Already a subscriber? Sign in

But why tho?
By johnj (1020), Westhampton on Apr 26, 19 4:21 PM
1 member liked this comment
WTF?

Thanks in advance for the eyesore.
By Mr. Z (11704), North Sea on Apr 26, 19 4:41 PM
Shut your mouth. Don't you dare try to impose your will on the sovereignty of the land you and your family stole from the Native Americans.
By NateNewtown (99), east on Apr 30, 19 5:13 PM
1 member liked this comment
They are not needed and would be an eyesore. Time to move out of the Town of Southampton.
By Resident tax (184), Hampton bays ny on Apr 26, 19 4:59 PM
2 members liked this comment
Westwoods is on Peconic Bay, not on Sunrise. Courts ruled it is a property owned by the tribe,governed by zoning laws as is any other property in SH. It is not part of the reservation. This is one reason the casino failed.
By Taz (705), East Quogue on Apr 26, 19 5:02 PM
Westwoods is north and south of Newtown Rd so some of it may abut the north side of Sunrise highway, but you are 100% correct about it not being reservation (sovereign) land. The only thing that I can think of is that some of the Westwoods land was taken (assuming eminent domain in which the Tribe should have been paid fair market value) when Sunrise was build. Like Old Riverhead Road was dissected into Old Riverhead Road and Old Riverhead Road East when Sunrise was put in. If this is the case, ...more
By longtimelocal (56), Southampton on Apr 26, 19 5:30 PM
longtime, thank you I have been waiting for years for someone else to publicly acknowledge that Sunrise Hwy runs through the reservation !
By joe hampton (3431), The Hamptons on Apr 27, 19 8:12 AM
1 member liked this comment
No their land actually does run south of Sunrise Hwy.
By mrtog (7), wading river on Apr 29, 19 3:50 PM
I was wondering what was going on there...Sorry, but this is in very bad taste. The last thing we need is another billboard. We work so hard here to save as much as possible to preserve the natural beauty of the land with CPF funds, which are also used to preserve sacred burial grounds. The beauty of this road is its lack of commercialism. Shame.
By V.Tomanoku (788), southampton on Apr 26, 19 5:06 PM
3 members liked this comment
The tribe have already decorated Montauk Highway with gaudy neon signs now they are moving to Sunrise Highway........enough is enough.So much for dark skies if this mischief is allowed to proceed,no way to treat Mother Earth.
By watchdog1 (542), Southampton on Apr 26, 19 5:24 PM
2 members liked this comment
this is AMAZING :)
By adlkjd923ilifmac.aladfksdurwp (741), southampton on Apr 26, 19 6:05 PM
So are they also responsible for cutting off all the branches off but leaving the trunks still standing of the three trees in the median?
By longtimelocal (56), Southampton on Apr 26, 19 6:27 PM
one of the trees was a nice london plane? or sycamore? that landscapers are getting paid over $25k to install. i would have paid to have it moved to my house
By thepresssucks (22), watermill on Apr 26, 19 6:47 PM
1 member liked this comment
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By longtimelocal (56), Southampton on Apr 27, 19 9:43 AM
Is this Lance Gumbs billboard or the Shinnecock Nation?
By harbor hound (31), southampton on Apr 26, 19 9:02 PM
Good question.
By metsfan2 (162), southampton on Apr 29, 19 8:04 PM
Billboards haven't been legal in Southampton Town for over 40 years! Five-time Supervisor Marty Lange saw to that, and the last ones, owned by Suffolk Outdoor Advertising, were removed in 1983 after years of legal battles!

Why isn't the Town enforcing its own laws, or is the Shinnecock Tribe sooooo soveerign that no one's laws apply?



By Frank Wheeler (1825), Northampton on Apr 26, 19 10:32 PM
3 members liked this comment
When was the last time Jobs Lane and Main St were so empty this time of year? Worry about that.
By adczeta (78), Southampton on May 1, 19 10:42 PM
Forget about the Town of Southampton. These billboards simply do not comply with state and federal highway laws for multiple reasons. It isn't hard to look up I really don't understand how they think they will get away with this. It is a safety issue period. They will be put up then have to be taken down.
https://www.dot.ny.gov/programs/nys-signs/off-premise
By rrrglynnn (22), Hampton Bays on May 7, 19 6:44 PM
Also I may add that it is right near the rest area "...outside of villages and cities, signs may also not be closer than 500 feet from an interchange, intersection, safety rest area, or information center." It isn't 500 feet away from the rest area I can tell you that.
By rrrglynnn (22), Hampton Bays on May 7, 19 6:48 PM
Frank Wheeler did you read the story? Stop work order? lol
By chief1 (2791), southampton on Apr 26, 19 11:20 PM
Remember when Southampton Town had that great big billboard sign with the cop and his gun/taser threatening you to stay within the speed limit?
By rvs (106), sag harbor on Apr 26, 19 11:34 PM
2 members liked this comment
That wasn't Southampton Town. It was the handiwork of Suffolk County.
By East End 2 (150), Southampton on Apr 27, 19 7:13 AM
1 member liked this comment
They should've issued a stop work order to those southern pine beetles that have infected the pines along the same route.
By watermill_mike (35), Sag Harbor on Apr 27, 19 6:16 AM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By country joe (60), sag harbor on Apr 27, 19 7:39 AM
1 member liked this comment
With all the problems the nation has on the reservation, THIS is what Mr. Gumbs focuses on? I'm guessing this is a bargaining chip to use with the Town (County? State?) for something else. Another guess: the tribe isn't paying for the construction (it has to be a lot of money), the company that will sell advertising on them is. But they ought to have seen the pushback coming.
By Liman (30), Montauk on Apr 27, 19 7:58 AM
1 member liked this comment
You can't blame Lance Gumbs for wanting to poke his thumb in the eye of the current Southampton Town Board. For every local resident whose legitimate complaint to Code Enforcement has gone unanswered, I propose giant plywood complaint signs be posted on all those ill effected front yards & roadsides. If Alex Gregor can litter the roadsides with all the illegal non-MUTCD compliant signs he wants, so can Lance and so should any taxpaying fed up local resident. The Southampton Town Board is trying ...more
By themarlinspike (521), Northern Hemisphere on Apr 27, 19 9:41 AM
1 member liked this comment
What are these?

illegal non-MUTCD compliant signs
By bb (910), Hampton Bays on May 11, 19 9:11 AM
I think that Liman's observation is spot-on. A billboard company made Gumbs the proposal and is bearing all the construction costs. The project required zero effort by the Shinnecocks and, while the tribe will never actually see any revenue from the sure-to-be-prohibited signage, the incident will serve as yet another pretext for Gumbs to bemoan the infringement of the white man on Indian sovereignty.

Nothing plays better with his constituency than the (endless) promotion of its victimhood.
By highhatsize (4187), East Quogue on Apr 27, 19 10:10 AM
Sounds like a Liberal then HH, the Democrat Party has been pandering to professional victim classes for decades.
By bigfresh (4596), north sea on Apr 27, 19 5:54 PM
@ bigfresh

Many have used victimhood promotion to further their deceitful schemes or to cast doubt on accusations of corruption that they cannot refute factually - - - but there is but one who epitomizes its exploitation - - - the Liar-in-Chief.
By highhatsize (4187), East Quogue on Apr 27, 19 9:24 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By Mr. Z (11704), North Sea on Apr 28, 19 11:42 PM
wow way to take a false flag and run with it, your axe to grind w Dems has no point in this discussion. It is opinions like yours that thwart progress for the very same claim can be made by the GOP.
By lo-cal (77), southampton on May 8, 19 9:45 AM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By Win sky (58), Southampton on Apr 27, 19 10:14 AM
1 member liked this comment
The eyes he is poking are yours and mine.Bad idea.No reciprocity for respect Town shows Shinnecock Nation. Cleared many trees in Westwoods back in the day attempting to start illegal casino construction. Selfish and money hungry as reservation residents struggle. Follow the money, I doubt tribal members will see it.
By Taz (705), East Quogue on Apr 27, 19 10:20 AM
2 members liked this comment
Well uh - what would you do if your family's land was stolen from you?
(also, what's your address?)
By adlkjd923ilifmac.aladfksdurwp (741), southampton on Apr 27, 19 4:44 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By Walt (292), Southampton on Apr 28, 19 8:33 PM
Nice comment.
By Fred s (3207), Southampton on Apr 28, 19 8:53 PM
Cut down trees is the answer to having 'your family's land stolen"?
What happened to respecting Mother Nature. Boy, ruining the habitat for those creatures that lived in Westwoods really showed us, didn't it now.
By bb (910), Hampton Bays on May 11, 19 9:15 AM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By Babyboo (293), Hampton Bays on Apr 27, 19 3:33 PM
Lol funny how these comments talk about “eye sore” and “land preservation”... I wonder how our ancestors felt when yours starting moving in on ours! Please remember you are ALL on OUR land!! You can argue until you are blue in the face but yet we forget what backyard your homes are on!? (And this is not up for debate) If you live in a home here in this town, trees where cut down to put it there and trees where cut down to build it! You can sit behind your computers and make ...more
By shlady09 (12), southampton on Apr 27, 19 8:05 PM
Or, they could stand against it and purchase nothing via boycott.

Time will tell...
By Mr. Z (11704), North Sea on Apr 27, 19 8:35 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By Bayman3142 (249), Southampton on Apr 28, 19 12:09 AM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By Walt (292), Southampton on Apr 28, 19 8:37 PM
I'd prefer it if people kept their eyes on the road, not checking the time and weather.

I am guessing those on the reservation also cut down trees to build their homes, so I fail to see your point.
By bb (910), Hampton Bays on May 11, 19 9:16 AM
Hope it happens. We will see. Rights are rights, let’s let it play out, hopefully honestly. We all can’t have everything we desire.
By Lets go mets (377), Southampton on Apr 27, 19 10:17 PM
1 member liked this comment
@ shlady09

The US Court of Appeals dismissed the Shinnecock land claim in February, 2016 and the US Supreme Court denied cert. in June, 2016.

It's over. It may have been Shinnecock land until 1859 but it isn't now and there is no prospect of that reality ever changing. (This being the United States and not Israel, there is no chance that a foreign power will swoop in and hand the land that non-Indian residents have occupied for generations back to the Shinnecocks.)

The ...more
By highhatsize (4187), East Quogue on Apr 29, 19 8:49 AM
2 members liked this comment
Anti Native American AND Anti Semitic all in one posting.
By themarlinspike (521), Northern Hemisphere on Apr 29, 19 8:58 AM
1 member liked this comment
2 very different things, please don't confuse the issues. He may be both Anti Native American and Anti Semitic but they are not the same thing. HH will ALWAYS insert anti Semitism at every opportunity.
By Taz (705), East Quogue on Apr 29, 19 10:34 AM
1 member liked this comment
Its there land hhs and they will do what ever they want with it!
By Ditch Bum (901), Water Mill on Apr 30, 19 2:55 PM
@ Taz

This was a useful opportunity to bring home to Southampton residents in concrete, personal terms just exactly how unjust the foundation of Israel was.

Were the same criterion legitimizing "sovereignty" applied to the Shinnecocks today as was applied to Israel in 1948 (the sanctioning of present day ownership on the basis of ancestral occupation), their own homes would be forfeit.

Predictably, unable to form a plausible rejoinder to this unassailable fact, Israeli ...more
By highhatsize (4187), East Quogue on Apr 29, 19 2:23 PM
So...we should all leave and give all the land back to the Shinecocks? What are the borders of this giveback? Or we should just let them vote in proportion to their numbers amongst us?

I'm not quite following what your suggestion is for the Israelis of today, please educate me more on your brilliant metaphorical words of wisdom.
By dfree (810), hampton bays on Apr 30, 19 5:54 PM
His point is that if you applied what happened in Israel in 1948 to Eastern Long Island today then the Shinnecocks and other tribes would be given back their land and we all would be forced to leave. He further explains that since this is the US, no other country is going to step in and force that outcome upon us. Typically US-led coalitions engage in this kind of country building. It doesn't happen to us (at least not yet).
By Arnold Timer (326), Sag Harbor on Apr 30, 19 7:29 PM
That's an interesting argument. How about the new residents from Central America who have recently settled here? Do they have to leave too? How about if we give everyone DNA tests to see how much Native American genetic makeup they have? Can be a two-fer since we can enter the DNA into the national crime database and determine if anyone committed criminal acts.
Win - win.
By dfree (810), hampton bays on May 1, 19 7:08 AM
Or you can just check back a few years and see who went to “ Indian” schools, or I should say we’re forced to go. If your relatives went to a “ Indian “ , you are a Native American. Shinnecock lineages go back way past out stay in the America’s. It’s kind of funny how you just dismiss other people’s heritage because you don’t like a stupid billboard.
By Fred s (3207), Southampton on May 1, 19 7:25 AM
1 member liked this comment
Don't get mad at me, everyone living in the USA has their history of trauma. All 4 of my grandparents came here to get away from the murderous syphillitic aristocrats who turned Europe into a killing ground so not responsible for anybody going to any schools.

As for the billboards, if it is legal, then you'd make alot more money putting up cell phone towers since the reception sucks here. Feel free to take that ugly useless tower on the HB Coast Guard station property, already built ...more
By dfree (810), hampton bays on May 1, 19 12:10 PM
Billboards are ugly!
By Aeshtron (415), Southampton on Apr 29, 19 4:53 PM
1 member liked this comment
Billboards are ugly but some of these comments are much uglier. It doesnt matter what the article is about, if the headline says Shinnecock Tribe or Native Americans , the people who are the REAL PROBLEM are the ones who post the rude comments.

Mr Z , mychildmatters ...ALL TIME LOW with your comments.

God Bless the Shinnecock Tribe

I hope the billboard reads: Kindness Matters
By toes in the water (884), southampton on Apr 30, 19 2:05 PM
Normally I go to bat for my friends over there. But not on this one.
By Mr. Z (11704), North Sea on Apr 30, 19 2:15 PM
The billboards first advertisement should be for the Stihl gas leaf blower !

Choice of the pros !

Karma lol
By Ditch Bum (901), Water Mill on Apr 30, 19 2:58 PM
1 member liked this comment
The second add could be for Discovery Land tee time info !

"ENJOY THE SERENITY OF GOLFING... WITH 82 LUXURY RESIDENCES...
COMING SOON TO EAST QUOGUE THE NEWEST HAMPTONS DISTIONATION"
By 27dan (2817), Shinnecock Hills on Apr 30, 19 3:10 PM
YES Ditch bum!!! Lol!

Excellent!
By toes in the water (884), southampton on Apr 30, 19 4:20 PM
Well guess the town"s arguments weren't compelling. BILLBOARD support posts (2 feet wide by 60 feet tall) being installed as I post.
By longtimelocal (56), Southampton on Apr 30, 19 10:20 AM
Memorials to the desecrated land and trees?
By harbor hound (31), southampton on Apr 30, 19 10:26 AM
1 member liked this comment
What an amicable, neighborly, agreeable letter that was from the Town Board that Lance is doubled-over laughing at as we speak.
By CPalmer (112), Southampton on Apr 30, 19 12:50 PM
1 member liked this comment
... Schneiderman's patronizing letter to the Shinnecocks tries to appeal to their sense of preservation as the two signs that tower above the pine trees are in stark contrast to the natural,and scenic beauty of the town. Yet, he has no problem continuing to champion a defeated 118 home housing project and golf course in and among those same pine trees.
By William Rodney (559), southampton on Apr 30, 19 1:45 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By mychildmatters (70), SOUTHAMPTON on Apr 30, 19 1:48 PM
If your child matters, teach him love an kindness, not judgment an hate . TY
By toes in the water (884), southampton on Apr 30, 19 2:06 PM
Very good mychildmatters, you managed to disparage a whole community in one vile post. There’s this thing called history, maybe go read up about how native Americans have been treated throughout history. I’m glad your child matters, it seems you are teaching them some horrible lessons. Good job
By Fred s (3207), Southampton on Apr 30, 19 2:29 PM
1 member liked this comment
Thank you Fred!
By toes in the water (884), southampton on Apr 30, 19 4:16 PM
Great STOP WORK order. Another Rose Hill Road Park fiasco. Get the work done before the town can react and then drag it out in court. The only losers are the people of Southampton.

Here are some new pics,

The Post - https://1drv.ms/u/s!AnTqKnnJSfwth1mXSKrDVUhQ5E7l
Installing the post - https://1drv.ms/u/s!AnTqKnnJSfwth1q5s9l0YSULX3VG
Post installed - https://1drv.ms/u/s!AnTqKnnJSfwth1v5PXDOUiWo4BpC

Augmented pic of what it may look like
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AnTqKnnJSfwth14oEhMt2UtJRDNv

FYI: ...more
By longtimelocal (56), Southampton on Apr 30, 19 4:01 PM
doesn't look so bad actually.
seems like a non-issue.
By adlkjd923ilifmac.aladfksdurwp (741), southampton on Apr 30, 19 7:36 PM
Its not a "non-issue" if your one of the neighboring residences being impacted by the light and view pollution. Who's going to want to buy those houses? You?
By V.Tomanoku (788), southampton on May 1, 19 12:53 AM
1 member liked this comment
I have the solution Mr. Schneiderman !

The people living along the highway from the Bellows Pond Rd bridge to the Lobster inn on both sides have been begging the town for a sound wall for 20 years.

Maybe you could finally have some mercy on us and take the land the billboard sits on using emanate domain, to give us some long long awaited relief from the decibel levels. This noise decibel level was shown to be to high by a study sponsored be Fred Thiele years ago ! ? JAY ???
By 27dan (2817), Shinnecock Hills on Apr 30, 19 5:32 PM
THEROAD FROMTHAT POINT TO THE EASTERN BORDER SHOULD BE PUT UNDERGROUND. THE SIRENS START GOING OFF EVERY TEN TO FIFTEEN MINUTES WHILE THE IDIOTS ARE HERE. NOT BUCOLIC AT ALL
By sstorch (47), water milll on May 2, 19 9:51 PM
1 member liked this comment
Nobody has released the DNA test results on those remains. They DID test them didn't they?
By East End 2 (150), Southampton on Apr 30, 19 7:41 PM
The Shinnecocks have a reality for their survival
By chief1 (2791), southampton on Apr 30, 19 9:28 PM
Officials later asked tribal leaders, in the letter, to not “diminish” any beauty the town and tribe have worked together to protect from overdevelopment.
Really ??
By AndersEn (173), Southampton on May 1, 19 4:23 AM
bucolic? has any of the idiots on the town board taken a walk on the beach, looked across the Mecox Bsy, Shinnecock Bay. Pathetic at best. Put it like this; when the europeans first got here you could drink freshwater out of every pond, lake and stream. I'll stop there because bas words are emerging...
By sstorch (47), water milll on May 1, 19 7:40 AM
FAR FROMIT.

bu·col·ic
/byo͞oˈkälik/
adjective
1.
relating to the pleasant aspects of the countryside and country life.
"the church is lovely for its bucolic setting"
synonyms: rustic, rural, pastoral, country, countryside, agricultural, agrarian, outdoor, idyllic, unspoiled; More
By sstorch (47), water milll on May 2, 19 8:56 PM
1 member liked this comment
oh, one more, stop work? but we could not get a stop work at the rose hill road site where the trustees gave away half of our access to the homeowner with no permits posted, no DEC permits, no silt fence, no public hearing. "There is something rotten in Southampton"
By sstorch (47), water milll on May 1, 19 7:47 AM
1 member liked this comment
FYI 27East added a third image to the article that shows what the billboard will look like, So we now know a "Monument" is just a vertical BILLBOARD. It's just a bigger target to hit if someone accidentally runs off the road. Thank you 27East; for the image; however, there is verbiage on the side of the image that you can't make out. It would have been nice if you posted a larger image or just post the text. What you can make out says "Double Sided Display". Is this the case? It wouldn't seem to ...more
By longtimelocal (56), Southampton on May 1, 19 8:35 AM
Completely unnecessary and sad.
By Hillsnbells (43), Southampton on May 1, 19 9:21 AM
Where were your elected State Officials when all this was happening??? Isn't that state highway land inside of the fence??? Where are Levalle and Theile, hiding???
Beautiful lands of the res, looks like a dump. Just drive down montauk highway. What is going on with the world famous MUSEUM???
By knitter (1908), Southampton on May 1, 19 9:43 AM
The Museum is wonderful. I wish that more of the Shinnecocks would devote themselves to that amazing enterprise, than they do to tearing down trees and putting up ugly structures. The Shinnecocks have every right to be proud of their heritage. But they don't seem to do much to promote it. This museum is a lovely example of what they should be focusing on.
By bb (910), Hampton Bays on May 11, 19 9:25 AM
Very nice monuments but they should be taller and wider.
By themarlinspike (521), Northern Hemisphere on May 1, 19 9:43 AM
Very nice indeed. Certainly not cheap an tacky looking . Classy.
By toes in the water (884), southampton on May 2, 19 7:00 AM
Where were your elected State Officials when all this was happening??? Isn't that state highway land inside of the fence??? Where are Levalle and Theile, hiding???
Beautiful lands of the res, looks like a dump. Just drive down montauk highway. What is going on with the world famous MUSEUM???
By knitter (1908), Southampton on May 1, 19 9:43 AM
1 member liked this comment
Knitter, ever been inside the museum? It’s actually very nice, a good glimpse into the Shinnecocks history. Stop in, you’d enjoy it.
By Fred s (3207), Southampton on May 1, 19 10:33 AM
let's think of the wavering "tribe", who need leaders but get gamblers instead,,,
By basic1 (12), Southampton on May 1, 19 9:52 AM
And tax assessments went up in Hampton Bays by ridiculous amounts. Time to recalculate.
By harbor hound (31), southampton on May 1, 19 10:06 AM
These monuments can be beautiful if all the parties cooperate to make that happen. The Shinnecocks are an asset to our community. I for one would much rather look at a Shinnecock monument than another McMansion.
By deKooning (106), southampton on May 1, 19 11:07 AM
There's such a thing in the law as a scenic easement. The legal status of the land on which the signs/monuments would stand here is questionable. That land is not reservation property, but a separate parcel which the tribe owns. Not all, perhaps not any, of the sovereignty attributes that attach to the reservation are applicable to the separate Westwoods property. All of that was thrashed out when the Shinnecocks wanted to put a casino at Westwoods.

There's also the question of the ...more
By Turkey Bridge (1967), Quiogue on May 1, 19 12:17 PM
Sounds interesting. I would hazard a guess the drivers enjoying the view have no standing in the legal sense. The property owners abutting this property would probably be the aggrieved parties with standing. I don't think these structures will last more than the summer. The town's CPF money will probably make it go away eventually once a deal is struck. Likely some calculation of the lost projected advertising revenue times X number of years but they'll tie it into the land value as CPF rules require. ...more
By watermill_mike (35), Sag Harbor on May 1, 19 12:37 PM
I believe that, as invitees (legalese for 'guests') of the governmental property owner of the highway, drivers would succeed to the owner's rights and would thus qualify as aggrieved parties.

As far as that goes, the owner itself, which constructed and operates the highway to accommodate traffic in a scenic greenbelt and thereby serve the community's welfare, would probably have standing to claim that its interest is frustrated by the view-killing structures.

By Turkey Bridge (1967), Quiogue on May 1, 19 2:27 PM
Fred, when is the museum open for visitors? With the natural landscaping, a nice digital billboard would be nice...
By knitter (1908), Southampton on May 1, 19 12:53 PM
Hey knitter, I’m not sure if the museum is open daily, I’ll find out.
By Fred s (3207), Southampton on May 1, 19 6:19 PM
I don't think it is, or at least it hadn't been in the past. Employees or volunteers are most likely needed to keep it open set hours. Again, support by the Nation is needed.
By bb (910), Hampton Bays on May 11, 19 9:28 AM
Could the Press find and post a map of the Westwoods property for clarity? Does it really hop over to the south side of 27? For the record, while I think the signs are super ugly I really enjoy this F U to The Man.
By Agawam Yacht Club (69), Southampton on May 1, 19 1:03 PM
I do find myself wondering what the time and temperature is when I drive past that part of Sunrise. This should be a great help.
By Pacman (270), Southampton on May 1, 19 1:23 PM
Yes because it's 2019 and this type of info isn't in cars or on cell phones yet. Thank goodness there will be a sign letting us all know.
By SHResident (59), Southampton on May 1, 19 2:11 PM
2 members liked this comment
I'm hoping the new Blackberry has a thermometer built in! (fingers crossed)
By Pacman (270), Southampton on May 1, 19 5:43 PM
2 members liked this comment
I think the issue here is the Shinnecocks feel like the unwanted step-children of our town. They see McMansions being built that aren't even lived in, yet their people live in small homes where they can't get a mortgage to do any improvements. The Town does not include them in any decisions, they see their ancestors' burial sites being built upon, with their ancestors being taken away to be studied instead of returned to them. We're complaining of a billboard, yet look at all those ugly buildings ...more
By NoName27 (16), Southampton on May 1, 19 2:29 PM
The Shinnecock Nation has been met with nothing but resistance in this land of "not in my back yard". Most people around them are flourishing while "we" keep them struggling because nobody wants to be the underdog or the leper. The Casino was denied. That was a great opportunity for them to generate money to better there lives. To create jobs. So to everyone who denied, complained an said "NO, Not in my backyard", well the Tribe just found a way around it and stuck it to all of you. I think its ...more
By toes in the water (884), southampton on May 2, 19 7:13 AM
Oh please, the Shinnecocks are American citizens and they have just as much opportunity as any other American. Further, why don't they use their land for agricultural purposes and create a product that they can sell? I can see Shinnecock Famous Apple Pies as a product. Instead, they want to team up with casino owners and bring gambling to Long Island and the Hamptons. If they want jobs either get an education and join the larger US community or have the community ccreate a business which give ...more
By JohnSmith (25), Johnson City, Tennessee on May 5, 19 4:05 PM
Johnsmith, there are many many successful people that live on the reservation. Teachers, police officers, lawyers. Many are also serving in the armed forces. My advice would be to visit someone on the reservation, you’d see you are mistaken in your insinuations. You think it’s right to paint a whole community of people with such a broad brush? Don’t attack the whole tribe because of the actions of one.
By Fred s (3207), Southampton on May 5, 19 4:21 PM
People who are successful don't install obnoxious billboards to insult the community in which they reside. And, those in the Shinnecock community who are not part of this farce should stand up and say so. We all know that the people funding the casino ploy are all casino people. Casinos bring negative elements into a community; they encourage gambling addiction, they encourage prostitution. It's the truth. So if the Shinnecocks want to live decent lives on the reservation its up to them to ...more
By JohnSmith (25), Johnson City, Tennessee on May 7, 19 7:06 AM
CPF should make them an offer they cannot refuse for the Westwoods property. Millions of dollars to buy it and preserve it is a win-win situation for everybody.
By Non-Political (124), Hampton Bays on May 1, 19 8:01 PM
According to CBS news

Shinnecock trustees later replied to CBS2’s request for comment, saying in a statement “our community has suffered greatly over the last several decades due to a lack of resources. Now, we have the opportunity to generate revenue and have access to the same standard of living as our much wealthier neighbors.”

Town officials said tribal leaders told them at a recent meeting they are not asking for permission. They just wanted to let the town ...more
By longtimelocal (56), Southampton on May 1, 19 8:06 PM
I’ll tell you what..... to all of you making these well articulated arguments in opposition to the Monuments, why don’t you galvanize and “pony up”. Pay fair market value for all of the land that you stole in addition to the genocide committed against us and we will gladly get rid of the Monuments. I think I can sell that to my Nation....what say you????
By Kendogz (8), Southampton on May 1, 19 8:12 PM
1 member liked this comment
Nobody stole anything. And, nobody owes you a thing. That is just your excuse for being obnoxious.
By JohnSmith (25), Johnson City, Tennessee on May 7, 19 7:08 AM
With respect, Ken, that is a pretty silly argument you are making. No one alive today nor within the last 100+ years had anything to do with the current land divisions. Throughout history, land has changed ownership violently and peacefully so that all of our ancestors have been impacted in one way or another. It may not be easy for the Nation to accept the past. Rest assured that yours is not the only "tribe" that would like to re-write history. Actually trying to do it though is a fools errand, ...more
By basic1 (12), Southampton on May 1, 19 9:15 PM
4 members liked this comment
Dans soulution just might work ... Interesting

" The people living along the highway from the Bellows Pond Rd bridge to the Lobster inn on both sides have been begging the town for a sound wall for 20 years.

Maybe you could finally have some mercy on us and take the land the billboard sits on using emanate domain, to give us some long long awaited relief from the decibel levels. This noise decibel level was shown to be to high by a study sponsored be Fred Thiele years ago "
...more
By joe hampton (3431), The Hamptons on May 1, 19 10:08 PM
1 member liked this comment
Hey Jay, what know, guess they won't listen...
By knitter (1908), Southampton on May 1, 19 10:41 PM
A sound barrier reminiscent of the LIE in Nassau County? That's worse than a billboard by far.
By bigfresh (4596), north sea on May 2, 19 6:32 AM
1 member liked this comment
Simply, since the property in question is nothing but a common holding, Lance Gumbs and the Shinnecocks have no more right to erect a billboard/monument/memorial/whatever there in violation of the law than does any other property owner. However, to judge by the lack of enforcement to date, it would appear that those sturdy oaks on the town board are too timorous to enforce the law (for fear of appearing "insensitive"[?].) That will leave the job to NY state, which may initially drag its heels ...more
By highhatsize (4187), East Quogue on May 2, 19 7:38 AM
2 members liked this comment
Well said -- productive mutual.endeavor -- a good lesson that Hamas should learn as well.
By dfree (810), hampton bays on May 2, 19 8:12 AM
1 member liked this comment
@ dfree (& Taz)

Amen.
By highhatsize (4187), East Quogue on May 2, 19 8:39 AM
They are not installing the signs on the Indian owned Westwoods property. They are installing the signs on the Sunrise Highway easement (They are between the Sunrise fences). This was originally part of the Westwoods property before Sunrise Highway existed, but when the highway was build NYS acquired the land. The base of the sign is going to be 22' wide x 8' high x 7' deep. If the support post is in the middle of the sign, it means the sign base will extend 10' on either side of the post. This ...more
By longtimelocal (56), Southampton on May 2, 19 8:43 AM
TRIBES ARE GATHERING !!!!!!
May 2, 19 8:55 AM appended by themarlinspike
Beware of the moonless night when three large bonfires are lit on the point of Montauk.
By themarlinspike (521), Northern Hemisphere on May 2, 19 8:55 AM
1 member liked this comment
So are the Dust Bunnies under my bed!
By longtimelocal (56), Southampton on May 2, 19 1:57 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By themarlinspike (521), Northern Hemisphere on May 3, 19 8:11 AM
. . . . and the ones in your head.
By themarlinspike (521), Northern Hemisphere on May 3, 19 10:42 AM
Classy.....nothing like a little taste of Vegas, even if they can't have the casino to go with the lights. I can't wait for the ads to start....maybe the first one will read, "Re-elect Schneiderman"
By cedric (22), Southampton on May 2, 19 9:07 AM
I think they'll advertise their upcoming venture upon cannabis legalization: Shinnecock Bay Bud.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (8075), HAMPTON BAYS on May 2, 19 9:22 AM
1 member liked this comment
That has a nice ring to it.
By Agawam Yacht Club (69), Southampton on May 2, 19 10:13 AM
If we are counting on NYS, it’s Plan B time. How about Village, Town and County resolutions to not do business with anyone who advertises on these things? How about the Town publishing a monthly list of the advertisers, so those inclined to boycott them can do so? Best way to kill these things may be to starve them to death
By CPalmer (112), Southampton on May 2, 19 11:15 AM
OMG. Like Hampton Bays isn't already tacky enough. Please, NOOOOOO!
By Tay (35), Hampton Bays on May 2, 19 11:17 AM
Do you know that buying cigarettes at the Reservation is illegal for anyone that is not a member of the tribe? Anyone who buys there are not paying NYS tax. For years now the state has turned a blind eye on all who buys there. They could easily crack down and confiscate any cigarettes that are bought there. That would put most of the cigarette shops out of business, at least the cigarette business. I'm not against a sign but a sign within reason. There is not one thing on the east end that's ...more
By localyokel (16), Southampton on May 2, 19 2:22 PM
put the noise abatement wall between the highway and the signs
By hamptonsnrcit (47), sag harbor on May 2, 19 3:21 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By HB2NYC (6), Manhattan on May 2, 19 4:53 PM
Very happy to see the Tribe doing this. It is about time. In this way, every single person enjoying the East End will learn that the Shinecock Tribe is a Sovereign Nation. Look at all the negative talk, it would be one thing if building permits for homes over 1,800 sq ft were no longer issued, then you could say something, and there would be a lot of blabbing then about "property rights". Well guess what, the Tribe has the ultimate property rights, going back to the Creator.
By evananda (4), East Hampton on May 2, 19 7:04 PM
1 member liked this comment
We have enough eye sores with their tobacco trading posts.
Dynamite the dam towers and be done with it.
Explain simply ... good neighbors defecate all over.
By jediscuba (71), Suthampton on May 2, 19 7:20 PM
Miss-wording ..... Should have read
: good neighbors don't defecate all over
By jediscuba (71), Suthampton on May 2, 19 7:32 PM
The Town has no building permit authority over the land which NYS DoT controls, thru their Right of Way, which is in turn owned by the Tribe. If the State decides to build a structure on the Right of Way, the Town is unable to stop it. Obviously, the NYS DoT has already given the green light to the Tribe to build these monuments. They have to meet certain NYS DoT design guidelines and engineering rules for being built where they are. Also, at the time the Town beat the Tribe on the Casino project, ...more
By evananda (4), East Hampton on May 2, 19 7:58 PM
1 member liked this comment
@ evananda

I believe that you are making unfounded assumptions.

I think it unlikely that the tribe has received any sort of permit from the DOT. Had this occurred, would Gumbs no so have informed the town? (Although I am not discounting the possibility that he withheld this information just to increase the drama.) And the tribal Gaming Authority was disbanded over four years AFTER the tribe received federal recognition so it is unlikely that that new status affected its failed ...more
By highhatsize (4187), East Quogue on May 3, 19 1:02 AM
2 members liked this comment
What would a tunnel from North Rd to say, Sagaponack cost?
May 2, 19 9:15 PM appended by Mr. Z
Or, perhaps just an upper deck from the merge to N. Main Street? We could even add a second tier to the 7-Eleven...
By Mr. Z (11704), North Sea on May 2, 19 9:15 PM
A much better and long term solution is using the right of way next to the LIRR for driverless solar powered electric cars. Software and hardware both exist today, we could easily become the national high profile test, so can get a discount, and our State has already invested a ton of our taxes into the Buffalo solar roof plant.

No way our nitwits in local government can see beyond banning plastic straws -- that scheme is celebrity endorsed.a

However, self driving electric cars ...more
By dfree (810), hampton bays on May 3, 19 9:39 AM
To me this is simply a test case. If the Town, County, State or Federal Governments fail in stopping this project then you can bet the Casino project will commence on the Westwood property,
By blbandit (21), Southampton on May 3, 19 7:29 AM
This is....AWESOME! Anything to upset the fragile little fantasy worlds so many encapsulate themselves in is pure entertainment.
By Preliator Lives (432), Obamavillie on May 3, 19 8:20 AM
Cigars , cigaretts ????
By knitter (1908), Southampton on May 3, 19 11:13 AM
How can anyone on either side of this argument not consider this a destruction of local beauty? Even for a road there are few anywhere as pleasant as 27...let's go ahead and ruin it.
By joeg (31), Hampton Bays on May 3, 19 12:51 PM
When I was a child there were ads on the TV showing a Native American with tears in his eyes as he viewed a landscape littered with trash.

It seems the times have changed for now the Native Americans are littering the landscape with visual trash.
By scottso (18), southampton on May 3, 19 1:32 PM
You do know that guy wasn't a Native American, just an actor born to Sicilian immigrants in Louisiana.
By Preliator Lives (432), Obamavillie on May 7, 19 8:05 AM
When I was a child there were ads on the TV showing a Native American with tears in his eyes as he viewed a landscape littered with trash.

It seems the times have changed for now the Native Americans are littering the landscape with visual trash.
By scottso (18), southampton on May 3, 19 1:32 PM
Just for some insight, the crying Indian was an Italian actor.
By Fred s (3207), Southampton on May 3, 19 1:45 PM
1 member liked this comment
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By watchdog1 (542), Southampton on May 3, 19 3:59 PM
Boy, wish the Town would address the traffic and safety issues on Sunrise Highway/CR39 with the zeal they have focusing on harmless monuments. Maybe one day the administration will understand priorities.
By A Great American (103), East Quogue on May 3, 19 5:27 PM
2 members liked this comment
nothing like sitting in your house and having the windows shake and hearing the rumbling.
By Resident tax (184), Hampton bays ny on May 4, 19 9:59 AM
nothing like sitting in your house and having the windows shake and hearing the rumbling.
By Resident tax (184), Hampton bays ny on May 4, 19 9:59 AM
Reading all of the comments on this article quite literally sickens me. Perhaps things could have and should have taken a different route for the Shinnecock Indian Nation AND the Southampton Town Board. Instead of forcing the issue (on both sides) perhaps a civil and agreeable compromise would have been a better tactic for both sides. We all need to take a step back, rethink the situation and move forward amicably.
By denisenro (1), southampton on May 4, 19 12:34 PM
1 member liked this comment
I guess after getting screwed for 300 years the Shinnecocks got tired of waiting.
By chief1 (2791), southampton on May 8, 19 9:31 AM
1 member liked this comment
Funny the dummy at code enforcement doesnt know the Highway right a way is exempt from local zoning lol
By chief1 (2791), southampton on May 4, 19 4:04 PM
Go clean up the beaches that's where the real eyesores are in these parts. All the pirated garbage overflowing and you all worried about a couple of innocuous signs. I am more concerned with all the plastic flying off trucks landing along the highway for our wildlife to suffocate from. Get a life!
By lursagirl (241), southampton on May 4, 19 4:26 PM
1 member liked this comment
Again, CPF should make them an offer they cannot refuse for the Westwoods property. Millions of dollars to buy it and preserve it is a win-win situation for everybody
By Non-Political (124), Hampton Bays on May 4, 19 9:33 PM
Let's just rename that area Vegashampton and let it be. :-)

By jkp720 (8), Westhampton on May 6, 19 9:48 AM
This is an outrage. Why would anyone want to put up big ugly signs?? Maybe the Town who put up two huge life-size billboards on CR 39 of a Police car and officer pointing a radar gun at traffic. Or the State who put up huge "Welcome to NY" signs all over the place in Southampton and East Hampton. Or the County who has a huge "permanent" temporary electronic construction sign eyesore on Sunrise Highway alerting drivers to various things. There are enough dump ideas to go around.
By deelove (152), Bridgehampton on May 8, 19 1:04 PM